Hey guys my fried. really needs help.
Today i was shopping with my friend and she was caught stealing a bunch of cosmetic stuff from TK maxx. Apparently 200 euros worth.
The security guard took her out back and me with her because she doesn't speak English or German. I speak fluent English only.
They called the police, and they came an hr later. Just before they arrived. The tk maxx security people took down my friends info (address, name, birthday). And when the police came they also wrote down her passport info. (we are from Korea) and told her to fill out a form.
I think it said if you want to answer now, she checked that
Then she also checked admitting the theft. The police then just said okay you are free to go. You will recieve a mail stating the fee and a small writing section ( and told her not to write anything that contradicts admitting to the crime, and when the mail arrives just write that you are sorry and you wont do it again) and we were free to go home. She didnt have to pay anything at tk maxx.
( ofcourse she returned everything and apologized alot)
Shes freaking out right now, we did some google searches and it looks like she might have to go to court, etc ( google is really unclear)
Does anyone have any idea what will happen?
Did she do a good thing about just admitting guilt?
Shes here on her working-holiday visa. But she isnt working so no income other than monthly allowence from her parents.
Will she get kicked out of berlin( germany)?
Will she go to jail?
How much will the fine be?
Should she get a lawyer?
Its her first offence, and shes 22 years old, foriegner ( Korean).
Caught shoplifting in Tk Maxx (200 Euros)
Notfall oder generelle Fragen?
Notfall oder generelle Fragen?
Zitat:ZitatWill she get kicked out of berlin( germany)? :
Will she go to jail?
No, no one goes to jail for something like this. They also won't kick her out.
ZitatHow much will the fine be? :
Depends on her in income. She must have some to live here. Could also be that she don't have to pay anything except for the fee from the shop.
But if she were to only have to pay the fee from the shop wouldnt they have just made her pay on the spot?
ZitatShould she get a lawyer? :
For what? Case is clear. Lawyer would just cost money.
Tell your friend to relax and to wait for the mail. ****ty situation but not the end of the world. But she shouldn't do it again.
-- Editiert von cabel am 04.06.2018 22:01
Zitat:ZitatWill she get kicked out of berlin( germany)? :
Will she go to jail?
No, no one goes to jail for something like this. They also won't kick her out.
ZitatHow much will the fine be? :
Depends on her in income. She must have some to live here. Could also be that she don't have to pay anything except for the fee from the shop.
ZitatShould she get a lawyer? :
For what? Case is clear. Lawyer would just cost money.
Tell your friend to relax and to wait for the mail. ****ty situation but not the end of the world. But she shouldn't do it again.
-- Editiert von cabel am 04.06.2018 22:01
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Some other people just said that, she will go to court but iIt depends on how she acts on court and how the judge is . & that its Better if she has one lawyer.
Also that she will get one letter from lawyer of city ( Staatsanwälten) with one appointment for the court.
80% stealing case, must pay some money for punishment.
Zitat:No, no one goes to jail for something like this.
They also won't kick her out.
Ich bleib mal beim Englischen, damit der/die TE es auch versteht...
The first is right, the second is not necessarily correct.
Student visas (like work and travel visas) can be canceled, even due to relatively minor offenses (small penalties). The foreigner office will be informed about the offense, due to a law that's called MiStra (Mitteilungen in Strafsachen/ "Communications in criminal matters").
Zitat:How much will the fine be?
Impossible to say at the moment. Some hundred Euros probably.
The shop will probably also charge a so called "processing fee" (50 to 100 Euros normally)
Zitat:.Should she get a lawyer?
Not necessary at the moment (the offense was committed and she was caught - what should a lawyer do?)
Zitat:But if she just had to pay the fee from the store, would not they just let her pay right away?
No, in Germany it is usual that a letter will come later
-- Editiert von !!Streetworker!! am 04.06.2018 22:56
Zitat:Some other people just said that, she will go to court
That is possible, but more likely that she will get a written judgment (so called "Strafbefehl" / "penalty order")
Only if she dont accept that penalty order she will go to court.
Zitat:80% stealing case, must pay some money for punishment.
No matter if its more or less than 80%. The value of the stolen things (200 Euro) is to high to get out of the case without paying a penalty fee.
I repeat: She will get a written judgement with a sum the court want to get from her
So does that mean if she pays the sum, she doesnt have to go to court?
She wants to take responsibility and pay the fee, but shes worried about court because she cant speak german and doesnt know how to find a lawyer.
& what is a penalty order?
Zitat:So does that mean if she pays the sum, she doesnt have to go to court?
Yes. if the court will decide to send such a written judgement (what is highly probable), she needn't go to court if she pay the penalty fee
Zitat:what is a penalty order?
That's the official name of the written judgement.
So whats the worst that can happen?
The biggest worry is that we hoping they dont revoke her working-holiday visa.
What happens if the court also finds her guilty ( i mean she already admitted her guilt and signed it) so whats the worst that can happen there?
I mean she wont go to jail for first offence right?
So whats the worst that can happen?
The biggest worry is that we hoping they dont revoke her working-holiday visa.
What happens if the court also finds her guilty ( i mean she already admitted her guilt and signed it) so whats the worst that can happen there?
I mean she wont go to jail for first offence right?
Zitat:So whats the worst that can happen?
The worst case is, that the court decide that they dont want to send a written judgement. In this case she must go to court and get a penalty fee there.
In this case she can ask the court for a korean translator. Or she engage a lawyer -if this worst case will happen.
She lives in Berlin? There are some korean or korean speaking lawyers in Berlin. If she really don't find one, she can ask the korean embassy for support. There is a south-korean embassy also one of north-korea. But believe me ... She will find a korean speaking lawyer in Berlin. She only must take a look in the phone-book
Zitat:The biggest worry is that we hoping they dont revoke her working-holiday visa.
Yes, but that is not a decision of the criminal court. That's a thing the foreigners office has to decide. That are two completely departed things. She can only wait to see if the foreigners office will contact her, ... or not.
Zitat:What happens if the court also finds her guilty
Of course the court will find her guilty ... She is proofable guilty. What happend is, that she will have to pay a penalty fee ... like I said before. The only open question ist, if that penalty fee comes by a written judgement or by a "personal appearance" at the court. That's all.
Zitat:I mean she wont go to jail for first offence right?
We have already confirmed this twice
I have to go offline for now. If there a further (not answered) questions, I will answer later ... CU
Thank you so much!!
my pleasure ...
Will she get a staatsanwälten?
Or is that like a maybe?
Also getting a staatsanwälten means she needs to get a lawyer immediately right?
Will she get a staatsanwälten? "The "Staatsanwalt" ist the public prosecutor. So what do you mean with "get"? Of course there will be a Staatsanwalt, that makes the proposal to the judge for a penalty order ("Strafbefehl"), but she will not meet him.
Also getting a staatsanwälten means she needs to get a lawyer immediately right? Its already said in Answer Nr. 4 - NO.
But will getting a lawyer expunge this from her record?
Also since visa is delt by the foreigners office, should she call and ask what will happen? Or should she just wait to see if they contact her?
But will getting a lawyer expunge this from her record? No.
Or should she just wait to see if they contact her? Yes.
In such simple and easy cases a lawyer would only have a chance to help if there would be any doubts that could be "used" to avoid or lower a possible penalty.
However in your case there is no doubt at all and in addition she did already and finally confess, so hiring a lawyer would just be a waste of money.
Even if it will require some patience: Stay calm and wait for related mailings. Since this is a low priority case it can take weeks or maybe months. Continue your life. Keep yourselves away from any criminal activities. And when the mailing comes get it checked by somebody who is fluent in German. Or come back to this forum.
And now please calm down and enjoy your stay.
Thank you so much for all your help & ideas! ! I will update the letter when it comes!
Zitat:Even if it will require some patience: Stay calm and wait for related mailings. Since this is a low priority case it can take weeks or maybe months. Continue your life. Keep yourselves away from any criminal activities. And when the mailing comes get it checked by somebody who is fluent in German. Or come back to this forum.
And now please calm down and enjoy your stay.
Well said
By the way, do you know how many letters i will get? Or when the letter will arrive?
3 normally.
1st is the "Anhörungsbogen" (reply form) from the police (this one the policeman talked about), within 2-4 weeks
2nd ist the penalty order (Strafbefehl), a few weeks after you sent back the reply form
3rd ist the payment request from the prosecutor, a few weeks after the penalty order
So the first one is where, you once again apologize and admitt the crime right? So When i get that i send it back with apology.
So i won't know what the pentalty fee is till i get the second letter or the thrid letter?
Is the second one same as staatsanwalten?
Also is "Anhörungsbogen" sth everyone gets? Because the confession was already done and admitted on the spot at the shop on monday. Is it possible i'll just get the strafbefehl?
Zitat:So the first one is where, you once again apologize and admitt the crime right? So When i get that i send it back with apology.
right
Zitat:So i won't know what the pentalty fee is till i get the second letter or the thrid letter?
Yes, the 2nd.
Zitat:Is the second one same as staatsanwalten?
The "Staatsanwaltschaft" is not a letter It's the authority that's responsible for prosecution. The people who work there are "Staatsanwälte" (men) or "Staatsanwältinnen" (women) = prosecutors.
One of them write that "Strafbefehl" (penalty order) an send it to the court. The judge take a look on it, sign it, and send it forward to you
Zitat:Also is "Anhörungsbogen" sth everyone gets?
Yes
Zitat:Because the confession was already done and admitted on the spot at the shop on monday.
O.K., but you didn't sign a Police-report (Protocol) at the shop, right? In addition, the police officer said that the hearing-form will come. So it will come...
Zitat:Is it possible i'll just get the strafbefehl?
Not in this situation. Only if there had been a formal hearing at the store. But if that had been so, the policeman wouldn't have said what he said about the hearing-form.
Only talking a little about the case with the officer is not a formal hearing.
-- Editiert von !!Streetworker!! am 09.06.2018 14:56
I dont exactly know what the police report is but i did sign admitting the crime & that i want to confess right there on the spot and signed the paper.
I thought that was the hearing form?
So this whole process might not end till august maybe?
Since my working holiday visa ends then & i have to go back to my country. What happens then?
Also i don't work here or anything so i don't know how they would calculate my income? I get monthly allowence from my parents
Also if the judge doesn't sign off on the strafbefehl, i would have to go to court?
Sorry all of this is still a bit confusing to me , thank you so much for your help once again!
Zitat:I dont exactly know what the police report is but i did sign admitting the crime & that i want to confess right there on the spot and signed the paper.
That was probably just the explanation for the ban to enter the shop for the next year. And for the processing fee.
Because it would absolutely nonsense if the officiar talked about a hearing-form, although the hearing is already done.
Zitat:So this whole process might not end till august maybe?
Maybe
Zitat:Since my working holiday visa ends then & i have to go back to my country. What happens then?
Then they send the stuff to your home-adress maybe (if you are from south-korea). Or you have tp pay when you enter Germany or the "Schengen-Area" the next time.
Zitat:I get monthly allowence from my parents
That is your income. You can tell them in the hearing form, how much it is. Otherwise, they will estimate it
Zitat:Also if the judge doesn't sign off on the strafbefehl, i would have to go to court?
He will sign - believe me...
I signed 2 papers.
1 was agreeing to the ban to tk maxx.
& one the police gave me to check boxes saying " i admitt the crime" claming guilty.
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